funnel the tenacity and grit and adaptability and survival skills of these kids into something positive. Nate, they're going to change the world. Like, I'm going to meet you where you are [music] and talk to you and learn about you and love on you and care for you. Yeah, but you're the CEO. Like, I know. Isn't that cool?
You will literally see hope return to their eyes. And when that happens, [music] now we get to work. What's the best single piece of advice you've ever received? From South Bend to Evansville and everywhere in between, this is Get In, the show focused on the Hooser State and the incredible stories happening here today. I'm Nate Spangle, founder of Get Indiana, and I will be your host for today's conversation. This episode is brought to you by Cluster Truck, the pickup and delivery kitchen, born right here in Indianapolis, just like this podcast.
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Today, I'm joined by Matthew Purkey, president and CEO of Josiah Whites in Wabash, Indiana. Now, Josiah Whites is one of the oldest and most impactful nonprofit organizations in the entire state with a mission to serve children, teens, and families in crisis. And that that mission stretches back over 175 years. I'm really excited to dive into one, a little bit of your story. I mean all across the country, your time in the service and what brought you here to Wabash County. And I want to talk about the history of this incredibly impactful organization that has expanded across the state but started right here in 175 years ago in Wabash County.
[sighs] Welcome to the show, man. Thanks, brother. Thanks for having me, dude. This is going to be a fun one. I mean, just a little bit from talking before and I will say we're recording on a Friday afternoon. The sun is shining.
We're here in Waw Bash. We're at the Cloud Club hanging out. We got a beautiful view here and I'm really excited to dive into a story that I I don't know very much about. We obviously put together our outline. I've uh I've heard a few stories here, but I don't know a ton about Josiah Whites. And I think the story starts backundred and I mean more than 175 years ago.
Can you kind of take us through the history of Josiah Whites? Yeah. So Josiah White um the person was a um a Quaker businessman in Pennsylvania. He made his way as far west as Wabash. He planted his flag in Wabash County and we are still on that same 800 acres. 175 years ago, Josiah White said, "I want to provide opportunities for every child regardless of race or gender."
And think about how I mean radical that was 175 years ago. This is 1850. Like that is nuts. He he plants his flag here and says we're going to What does that even mean though? like what did that look like in the early days of providing opportunity to children? Yeah.
So, um we are still on that same 800 acres and you know his vision was to use the land itself and every resource that was available to him to provide these opportunities. Not knowing exactly what that looked like 175 years ago. Um we've gone through many many many iterations of programming but we still stay true to that same goal of providing opportunities and future futures that are better than their past. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense.
So talk to me about then the transition like where did so today what does Josiah Whites do? Yeah. So um today at Josiah Whites our mission statement is actually we are a Christ-c centered organization committed to enriching the lives of both children and their families. And we do that through emotional healing, personal development and spiritual growth. Okay. That it means that we are all-encompassing healing.
We provide opportunities for hope and healing to to happen not only on our campus but within our regional offices also. Okay. So in practice if if it you were making it all like the programming and the like where the rubber meets the road in impacting lives. How where is that happening? How is that happen? And who are the people that you are helping?
Yeah. So we get kids from all 92 counties in the state of Indiana and we get them to through two referral sources to our residential program and that is DCS. So the department of child services and then also local youth uh probation count. Every county has youth probation officers that they refer kids to our program. Wow. Um we have three different programs within our residential.
Um so residential that means like someone is coming to a facility to live. So maybe they are like you know they're they don't have parents or they don't have a a secure home life. Um either that an unsafe home life or they are on probation or facing additional charges. Um we have three different types of residential programming. The first one is PATH. The PATH program uh just think general behavioral issues, fighting, stealing, truency, things of that nature.
Yeah. Um our second one is the MAP program and that is unhealthy sexual choices program. That is just a male boy program here in at our Wabash campus. And then our third is TRE which is long-term substance abuse. Oh wow. Yeah.
So you're taking uh and those are all for children. Correct. So children that might um be on a a challenging path like taking steps on a on a path that might not lead them to successful outcomes. Correct. and getting referrals from the department of the DCS or from local uh juvenile county probation officers. Wow.
Yeah. So, we are actually um we're trying to keep kids out of the department of corrections because statistically speaking once they do enter that uh doc we've there's a good chance we've lost them. Yeah. I would say are there are there numbers is there stats around like once you go to an actual you know uh you know in the in the system that way versus like a rehabilitation route like you know your recetivism rate or whatever that might be. I guess it's easiest to tell through a story if I could. So we get kids again from all 92 counties and they'll be on probation could be facing additional charges.
Uh most of the time either dropped out of high school or have fallen so far behind there's no hope in graduating. um they have not see any kind of counseling. And so a kid from let's just say Brown County can get referred to Josiah Whites. We will then transport that kid up to our residential facility. That child, boy or girl, will become part of our residential programming. That is all-encompassing.
It is um our goal is to provide an opportunity and environment for hope and healing to occur. And I would say Nate, 99% of the kids that are on our campus, yes, they're there because of behavioral issues, but 99% of the time it was it's about what happened to them first. Yeah. So, their behavior has been a um a symptom of a root cause. And we we have um our own clinic, and I would put our therapists up against anybody in the entire world. We have our own high school on campus.
Um they work while they're on campus. It is an all-encompassing holistic approach. This is 800 acres. 800 acres here in Wabash County and like let's just say like give me let's do a fake story. Let's just like you know think about it from uh we'll take like uh Nate. So I I'm a I'm a kid.
I'm you know what 13 14 years old like what what ages do sweet spots 13 to 17. 13. Okay. I'm 13. Yep. So that means I'm just going into freshman year or like almost to freshman year.
Okay. and I'm, you know, in uh Rush County. Yep. And I get myself into some trouble or I get myself down a path that's like what is that what does that kind of look like? What are the home lives? What are what are the situations that uh that lead me to getting referred to you guys?
Yeah. And and some statistics of the demographic that we serve on campus. Um and this is not a political statement at all, so I hope you hear my heart on that. Yeah. 92% of all kids who step foot on our campus do not have a um biological, foster, or adopted father in the household. 92%.
88% of the female staff that or female students, excuse me, that come to our residential program have some sort of sexual trauma in their past. So we there's obviously How many students are on campus at any given time? 100 about 100. 100. So you're telling me Oh my god. Yeah.
So 80 to 100 kids depending on um we go through cycles, right? I mean depending on uh political environments, things of that nature, but our residential program has been around for the entire time we have. Wow. So you're saying what was that? 92 92% of the young men, young like the men or women. Yep.
Oh, total. So if you were of 100, 92 of them do not have a biological father in their life. Correct. Or foster or adoptive. No f no father figure. Wow.
And if you think about any other social um social issue, no matter what it is, if it was 92% Nate, that's an epidemic. Yeah. And then the other piece is of the female population there. 80 88% 88% have some sort of sexual trauma like and then you talk about like yeah, you're you know getting referred by these sources, but you talk about what happened to them first. you know, like growing up even in, you know, mom or dad like a single parent household is already hard. Lots of people are experiencing that.
So, okay, we know those facts. Then, you know, me as, you know, Nate down in Rush County, whatever is happening there. I like find myself uh in a spot where either DCS has intervened or the local, what's the word for the juvenile probation? Yep. Youth probation officer. Youth probation officer.
and they're like, "Hey, you're now is it like a a mandated thing? Is it a referral? How does it work where they end up coming up to us?" It is. So, they'll they're actually sentenced to us. And when And that's one of the things I try to get in front of new residential students as soon as I can because they'll get there and they'll start to act like they're incarcerated, but there is no fences.
There is no locked doors. We welcome everybody. And the first thing we have to do is is to make sure that they know that this is an opportunity. Yeah. When you when you start to feel that it's an opportunity and not a sentence, you start to see kids graduating high school. You see kids starting college on campus.
You see kids working every job possible or getting a um a farm management or construction or welding or barista or serve safe, OSHA, all these certificates that are available to them. What does the average stay look like? How how what's the duration they'll spend with you all? Depends on um the program. The MAP program. So, the unhealthy sexual choices program is our longest and most intense uh for obvious reasons, but all of our programs bring the family into it.
Can I ask like what you mean by unhealthy sexual choices? So, say a young young man and young woman, so a let's say a 15-year-old boy and a 17-year-old girl are dating. They make a bad decision to start sharing pictures with one another. Yeah. The boy happens to show one of his buddies. Yeah.
Yeah. So now it's not only child pornography, but it's distribution of child pornography. So that kid will get a sentence and that's one of the only sentences that can actually follow you into adulthood. So we get these kids and uh the MAP programs 12 to 18 months. Yeah. That they'll be on our campus and they'll work with our um extremely talented therapists to their family teachers to their case managers to everybody.
We are all 340 employees are all there for for one goal and that's to to love on these kids and to make sure that they have a better next chapter than what they've come from. Yeah. Okay. That that helps me visualize what we're what we're talking about there. And so they will get technically sentenced but then when you get there the first thing is reshaping it like this is an opportunity. Absolutely.
So then like what does life look like when you are at Josiah Whites? you know, you step foot day one on campus. Like how do you start to, you know, make friends and socialize and also like contribute and, you know, you said it's Yeah, it's not locked doors and cells and solitary confinement. Like what does that feel like to be a student there? It feels it has more of a private college feel to it almost that you know, you're responsible for your own room. Um, you have a job if you've earned that right to work on campus.
You're going to school. Um, all these opportunities are available to you. What does that look like when you first get there? We welcome these kids and the first thing we'd ask is, "How are you?" Because they get there and you there's a posture about them. They're coming to a new place.
They're they're puffed up. They're they feel like they're getting incarcerated again. So, they have to start building that credibility again. And that's not who we are as an organization. Yeah. were there too.
Um, and they feel they they realize really quickly that um, all of our staff is there for the right reasons and we are there to love them first of all because we can suggest changes or these programs, but these kids aren't going to care what we offer them as an opportunity if they don't know that we care in the first place. So building that rapport and that trust with the students and our family teachers and everybody involved is step number one. Yeah, absolutely. Like you have to, you know, not talk down. They have to feel like they're not being talked down to. Like, oh, this is just another person who's going to boss me around, yada yada yada.
And it's like, no, like the people here care. So, okay, you show up day one, how are you? You start to get like what do jobs look like? What does schooling look like? Like, is there wreck time? Like, yeah, are there sports and fun?
Like, what are we doing? Start with the job aspect. So, you earn the right to work on on campus. They obviously can't be employed by Josiah Whites uh because of our contract with the state of Indiana, but they can earn stipens. So, every kid who leaves Jos just whites, if they're they work the program correctly, they're leaving with a three to $5,000 savings account that they've earned while they're there. Um, for every certificate that you earned, you get another you get additional money.
And that can be everything from OSHA, Serafe, construction management, farm management. Um, oh, that's so cool. Plumbing, electrical. So, you could get, you know, again, I'm saying in air quotes sentence, but you could end up at Josiah Whites and leave with three grand. Yep. because you like, you know, have gone and got certifications and gone and bettered yourself and help again create this next chapter to be better than your current chapter.
And we uh we work really hard with the counties to get their charges reduced or eliminated as long as they finish the program because we don't want we don't want a bad decision to lead to a bad life. And these kids are so much more than that. Nate, I tell people all the time that if we can somehow as a society and as a community funnel the tenacity and grit and adaptability and survival skills of these kids into something positive, Nate, they're going to change the world. Yeah. And it's like, you know, one you're 13 to 17 years old. Like, you know, show of hands out there in the audience like who didn't make a bad decision when you were 13 years old, you know?
And like you know there's varying that's a sliding scale of like what the decision looked like but you know a decision that you make when you're 13. Yeah. You know going and carrying off till you're 30 you're 50 you're 60 years old like you set yourself up on this path for again like a something that you did when you were you know a kid. That's it's uh it's a really big impact. Tell me about how you ended up at Josiah Whites and why you knew this was the right gig for you. Yeah.
Um my leadership journey started in the United States Marine Corps. Okay. Where where'd you grow up? Uh Dayton, Ohio. So from Dayton, Ohio and then graduated high school and said, "I'm going to the Marine Corps." No, no, no, no.
To answer your last question first is how did I end up here? Is cuz I was these kids. I was in and out of trouble my entire life. Um arrested a dozen times before the age of 18. Um a dozen? Yo, easily.
Wow. And then after that, went away to college, graduated second from the bottom of my class. Um did you go to college? Well, I failed out of three first. So I originally started at Eastern Kentucky University. Then I failed out of Wright State University and then I failed out of Sinclair.
Failing out of three colleges and that's a talent. Don't care what anybody says. That takes that takes or My parents were so proud. Or the lack of work. Absolutely. Um and then all my infinite wisdom at the the age of 21, I decided, you know what I should do?
I should go manage a bar in Miami, Florida. What could possibly go wrong? Everything. Everything went wrong. So you pick up and move to Miami, Florida to go manage a bar. Yeah.
And then um got myself into some trouble. I couldn't get myself out of and my dad swears to this day that he didn't do it. But at my trial, I look out and there's two guys in dress blues. And they said, "Your honoric, can we approach the bench?" And she said, "Yes." Then they came to me and they said, "Matthew, we can make this all go away if you just come into the Marine Corps."
And I was like, "I don't know what I'm signing up to do, but yes, let's do that." Um, and Nate, other than give my life to Christ and marry my beautiful wife, it was the best decision I ever made. I mean, no kidding. Hold on. [laughter] You're you're in a courtroom. You're in a courtroom and you're looking around and you see guys in dress blues in the back and they're like like, "Hey, this can be your next chapter."
It's and it's like I mean, was it go serve time? It was like serve serve time or serve time like where do you want to where do you want to spend your time? And you're like, "All right, shave my head and let's go." Dude, I uh I traveled the world, you know? I've done multiple deployments. Were you in Florida?
Yeah. So, I left out of the Miami MEPS um MEP system and I went to to Paris Island, South Carolina. Here we go. Um loved every second of it, Nate. I loved I loved the camaraderie. I loved the travel.
I mean, how old were you at 21 when you Oh, I was 22, actually. The whole system had ran its course. I went into the Marine Corps at 22. Yeah. How long did you stay in there? 5 years.
Okay. 22. 5 years. Traveling the world. Traveling the world. What years are the What years is this?
2006 to 2011. So I mean it that's still pretty active time. Uh so are you getting deployed to So you're active duty like you are deployed to Iraq, Afghanistan and then my third deployment was Haiti post earthquake 2010. We were in the Indian Ocean. Um I don't know if you remember when like the pirates were a thing which I like the Somali pirates. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. There's a Who's the captain now? Right. Come on. We We literally um were on a decompression deployment down there.
Uh the 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit and the Haiti earthquake happened changed course immediately. We were one of the first units on the ground after the earthquake. And you put a you put a bunch of guys who were trained to do one thing, Nate, and then you put them in a humanitarian assistance environment. It's totally different skill set. Yeah. Um, in fact, 80% of my unit got out after that deployment because we weren't I mean emotionally, spiritually, mentally, we weren't prepared for what we were about to do.
Okay. Wait, cuz you know you are a combat unit, right? like you are used to being in dangerous situations where you know skills and I'm I'm I'm generalizing so feel free to push back or tell me whatever but skills like you know empathy and support and that kind of thing like that you don't necessarily want those when you're in a tactical environment now you're in a humanitarian environment where I mean I'm sure you saw like a really troubled state of affairs in Haiti and not that combat there's nothing easy about combat So, I want to say that first, but you know exactly what you're there to do. Yeah. And you put those same guys in a humanitarian assistance environment and we got the job done. You know, we would we would like what do you do like what does it look like you're doing?
I mean, we were uh setting up security for local police forces. We were trying to um solar was really big down there. So, there was a lot of theft of solar panels. So, we had That's the unfortunate part, too. It's like what you think a humanitarian effort. You're there to, you know, probably search and rescue and like help people, but then when people are in hard times, there are certain individuals that will try to capitalize on that.
And you know, you see it even in riots or wherever around the United States where like the looting or that kind of thing happens and you're like that's that's a tough spot to be in when you're like trying to help the locals, but also the locals aren't trying to they're trying to hurt other locals. Yeah. 80% of our unit got out after that deployment. Like when you look back and you think like what do you think the main reason was that 80% of your unit left after you going to Haiti? We uh I did a TED talk when I first got out of the Marine Corps. It's called Still Serving Different Uniform and it was the use of community service as a mitigating factor to PTSD and suicide prevention.
Uh because after we got out Nate, I lost seven brothers to suicide. No way. Yeah. Out of like how many people are we talking? I don't I wouldn't even know that number, but seven seven guys that I served alongside. Yeah.
Took their own lives. Um what? And it was And so I was like, is that what you want to show that again? Is that your you have a tattoo for all of them? Yep. I mean, seven guy and and what do you you know being there and being around that and seeing it, what would you attribute that to?
One, I think we saw what the epitome of human pain looked like. And in combat, there's never I wouldn't say never, but it's very rare that you would come ac across a helpless situation. And in manit a humanitarian assistance, that's all it was. It was a a helpless situation. There was enough water bottles for every child. There wasn't enough food for every person.
There wasn't It was never enough. And so when we got out, um, I started thinking like, well, what what makes my story so different than than these guys who took their own lives? And if you look at their cases individually, you're talking black, white, Hispanic, um, welloff financially, in poverty. Like, there was very, very few things that were common amongst them. But the one thing that I could contribute my story being different to is that I I found a new mission as soon as I got out of the Marine Corps. And I contribute that to the Haitian deployment because I came into contact with the nonprofit sector and I fell in love with it.
I love how you said that I came into contact with like you know that's like a very it's a very marine way to [laughter] say that you know like like I discovered it's like I came into contact with but I mean okay so this is identity you know like you spend 5 years or probably more for some people like multiple uh tours of duty and multiple like times like multiple years in the service. you have an identity like you are a Marine and you get deployed and you are in you know dangerous situations you're in you know the the war zones to the humanitarian places like you have an identity and then you get out and yeah you could probably it would be it'd be hard to get your bearings a little bit and know like where your northstar is and where are you going you're kind of just floating for a little bit there so I came in I mean in Haiti I saw the good the bad the ugly the corruption, the the potential positive impact.
And I knew at that moment I was going to spend the rest of my life in the nonprofit sector. Now, I didn't know what where, when, how, what I would be doing. Um, but I knew so got out of the Marine Corps, moved back to Dayton, Ohio. At this point, had you kind of gotten all of your past behind you? Yeah. I mean, everything was expuned.
Everything I mean, what the Marine Corps promised, they they delivered. Yeah. And so you kind of felt like you come back to Dayton and you have like a clean bill of health and you're feeling you're like this is you're free. Yeah. And while I was enlisted I I got I not only finished that elusive bachelor's degree. Hey sorry mom and dad.
Uh but I got a master's degree also. No wait. You go from failing out of three colleges and being in trouble with the law to a bachelor's, a masters, a career, and a mission that you were going to get into the nonprofit sector. No doubt. Um, dude, you talk about one of the best like the third best decision you made in your life. Like that's a good third decision.
And that's what the Marine Corps did for me, Nate. um as an instrument in the orchestration of the my grand life. We get to do that every day as an organization at Josiah Whites. Every single one of those kids that walk through our doors, I know what they've been through. I know how it feels to be counted out or to slip through a crack or to be told you're never going to make it. Um and I they meet me and you know sometimes I'm in a suit or whatever and I'm just another I'm another suit, right?
I'm another white guy telling them this is what you're going to do. this is what's going to happen. Um, but that's not it. That's not it. And so, you know, a lot of the times when, you know, we'll go to the weight room, you asked about the campus, but we have three different weight rooms on campus. We have certified CrossFit instructors um that work there.
Again, holistic healing, but they'll see me in the weight room and they'll see my tattoos and, you know, I'll hand them the ox core and I'll be like, "All right, listen to whatever you want to, but while we work out, you're going to hear my testimony." innate a hundred times out of a hundred at some point that young man or woman will look at me and be like, "Yeah, but you're the CEO." Beck, I know. Isn't that cool? And that you will literally see hope return to their eyes. And when that happens, now we get to work.
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Well, we have a set of it for the crew and we absolutely love it. Go check out Burn Pro Gear. Now, let's get back into the episode. Hope is so powerful and being hopeless is so defeating when you feel like, you know, again, a lot of this it's no fault of their own. Like none of these kids, I mean, you know, chose to be in a single parent household to not have an adoptive, a foster, or a biological father in the picture. Like 92% of them, no, I don't think they woke up one day and said, "You know what would be fun?"
Like, "Yeah, not having dad in my life." And Nate, we I tell people all the time that our staff walks into not only the darkest parts of society, but people's lives on a daily basis. And that's no exaggeration. Um the things that that we hear, if I didn't hear them firsthand, I would say there's no way that this is still happening in 2026. And we serve over 1500 families and kids a year. And every single one of them have a story just like that.
Once I moved back to Dayton, I didn't know how I was going to get involved, but like any good Marine, I just started kicking down doors. Um, I had an approach that no one was going to outwork me in the nonprofit sector. So, I volunteered for all these different nonprofits and then a I don't even remember what the original one was. Manager of donor relations came open at a United Way. I didn't know what a United Way was. I didn't know what a donor was and I definitely didn't know how to manage them, but I was like, you know what?
Let's do this. Um, got in and, you know, I brought the same mission accomplishment mindset of the Marine Corps into the nonprofit sector. And because of that, you know, quickly rose up to a VP and that that organization, I was the CEO of um the United Way in Athens, Georgia. Yeah. Which um if you've never been, highly recommend. Go dogs.
Um born and raised a Buckeye. I was in Athens and man, it's impossible. When they say it's different in the South, they are not lying. Um at that point, you know, we were aging parents. My wife's family's from Dayton. My parents are in Dayton.
We wanted to be closer to home. And so a position for the CEO role in United Way in Allen County in Fort Wayne is what brought us to to Indiana. Growing up in Ohio, I didn't know anything about Indiana. I just knew it was our neighbor. Had no idea how awesome it would be to live here. And really, oh my god.
What What makes it awesome to you? Um Well, and what year did you get planted in Fort Wayne? Yeah. Yeah, we moved to Fort Wayne in late 2019. Oh, I mean, yeah, talk about like that decade. I mean, the last decade, I feel like Fort Wayne has just been up and to the right doing amazing things.
Like, one of the fastest growing, like tons of development going on. It's a great time to live up in that region. And so, we uh yeah, we love Fort Wayne. We loved everything about it. We loved our community. We loved our neighbors.
We had um support systems there. We loved it. And, you know, I loved leading the United Way there. But leaving leading through CO, we did some really cool things, you know, multi-county homeless shelter for those infected with COVID, things of that nature. Like we went above and beyond. Um, and the United Way there, we did awesome work, but I was really, really, really exhausted.
I was just scratching and clawing for every dollar. And so, back to that TED talk I did, um, I mentioned two organizations that did it really well. Team Rubicon and The Mission Continues. The mission continues. Then call and said, "Hey, we have some systemization work across our 48 locations in continental US and two in Puerto Rico. Will you come lead this for us?"
Yeah, let's do this. You know, in my mind, it was I'm going to I'm going to go honor my buddies who didn't make it home or got home and then lost the battle here. I'm going to go honor them and serve veterans across the country. Did that for a couple years. Loved everything about it. Loved our team, the camaraderie.
Um, you know, it felt like an an extension of the Marine Corps is what it felt like. But what was that word? The mission continues. Okay. Um, so I was a vice president of operations and so we um did some really cool things. I loved it.
But what I didn't love, Nate, is traveling two to three weeks a month with a wife and three small kids at home. Yeah. So the job was literally prohibiting me from being the father and husband I desired to be. Yeah. So, I was talking to my pastor one day and he said, "You should apply for this." I told him, "Look, man, I don't I don't need a new job, but I really want a new job."
And were you still based out of Fort Wayne? So, you were just hitting the airport and getting all around. Okay. Yep. Definitely getting my frequent flyer miles in. And it all came to a head and Nate when I was giving a talk one time.
Um, I said, "Thank you so much, Albuquerque, for your continued support. I was in San Antonio. I didn't even know what city I was in anymore. Like I I traveled so much. I literally didn't know where I was. So I knew then I had to start looking closer to home.
Told my pastor like I don't need a new job, but I would like one. And he said, "You should check out the CEO position out. Josiah Whites and Waw Bash." And Nate, I said, "What is Josiah Whites and where is Waw Bash?" Like what? Yep.
That checks out. What do we What is I was thinking, you know, it's a mom and pop shop. Probably doing some pretty good work, but it just wasn't in my career trajectory. Yeah. And because even you know even in nonprofit leadership se like there's still like a uh an ambition you know like hey if I it's not I feel like I'm what I'm about to say is like take it with a grain of salt but it's like you know you go work at a bigger organization and you get to make a larger impact and like that's fun and that's enjoyable and it like you know feeds a part of the soul of the competitor you know and so you're thinking Josiah Whites and Wash. like no.
And he literally said, "Just go check it out." Nate, I'm not kidding. I was on campus for 5 minutes and I said, "This is where I'll retire from. This is where I want to spend the rest of my career. I will be here as long as they will have me." Um, five minutes cuz again, I I can't wait.
We're going to go out there for a tour next. And I can't wait. I'm very excited. It's like nothing I've ever seen. Um, and again working with thousands of nonprofits over my career, I have never seen one that has the single impact elements that Josiah Whites has. Like single impact, it's unbelievable the things that happen.
Um, my wife and I have a little segment of our evening after we put our kids to bed and and we'll say on today's episode of You Can't Make This Up because the things that happen on this campus, it's like nothing I've ever seen. Give me an example. So, I've been there almost three years and we have 31 different teams and I I try very hard to be involved in like as close to the front line as possible. Because there's 300 300 plus employees all here in Wash or spread across the state. We have uh we have regional offices in Marville, South Bend, Fort Wayne, Greenwood, Indie, and then we have two additional satellite offices opening this year. And so we continue to grow.
But even the staff in the nonprofit sector, Nate, you'll hear people say, "Oh, I'm a lifer." And that means 10 to 12 years. Josiah Whites literally retires people after 50 years of service and they're third generation. No way. if I can't name a single mission that would personally and professionally fulfill me like the one we do and and I get asked all the time um and it comes in different forms but it's like [sighs and gasps] do you ever have to fake it till you make it or do you ever have to manufacture energy or do you ever have to and Nate when I get when I find myself getting wrapped up in the political side or the administrative or the fundraising or whatever it may be and I feel like I'm starting to get disconnected from the mission itself all I have to do is walk out in my office, talked to one of my students, and there is no shortage of inspiration and if you can't find it on our campus, you're not looking.
Yeah. Wow. Okay. So, you're three years in and the impact that you're making. So, I want to get a full scope because you talked about regional offices. There is, you know, at any given time, let's say roughly 100 kids on campus going through one of those three residence programs.
Then what are the other services being provided around that? So we we do family preservation which means when DCS gets a call of anything from neglect or abuse or domestic violence whatever it may be um we go into the house because we the the goal of the state of Indiana is to keep that organic family together. We go into the house we provide the services for whatever it may be that this family is struggling with. And then we also do foster care licensing and support in all of our uh regional offices also. So, what does that mean by licensing? Yeah.
So, you have to get licensed through the state of Indiana to be a foster parent. We do that for DCS. So, we are an LCPA, which is a licensed child placement agency. I got you. So, if if I was, you know, ever like, hey, I want I want the opportunity to be a foster parent. I could take programming through you all, and hey, Nate is fit to be a parent.
Yep. We do home studies. We do everything. Now, is that hard? Absolutely. I feel like Absolutely.
I feel like um being a judge of character, you know, of like, hey, right now through the interview, like because how long does it take from start to finish to become our goal is 100 days. Yeah. Cuz it's like there's a need. People need home. Like kids need places to go, but also you want to make sure that where you're licensing people, you know, you're putting them in healthy environments. No doubt.
So you don't want to go out of the frying pan and into the skillet. and and the like what are the you know when when you're thinking of licensing what are the reasons that people get into foster care and get become foster parents? That's a great question. Um one it's a calling. So, one of the one of the most I mean, if I can say it, one of the most damning statistics I've heard since being in this role is that if every church in the state of Indiana, Nate, added just one foster home, just one, from their congregation, we would have more foster homes than we do kids in need. Dude, I mean, talk about putting your money where your mouth is.
And we we turn away over a hundred foster kids a week because we don't have enough foster homes. And when you say turn them, like where do you where is there to turn them away to? They'll they'll just stay in in kinship placement or um in their current situation and a lot of times they'll end up in our residential program or we have kids in the state of Indiana who literally have nowhere to go. Someone else told me this uh I think there's like an there's some some crew working up in Elcart on something uh in the foster care uh sector, I'll say. And like the stat about how many kids in Indiana need a place is insane. It's crazy.
Like do you like any given week like how many kids are out there that need like for you guys it's 100 but like on a statewide level like the number is tens of thousands. It's large. Yeah. Especially cuz you know when we have a kid who graduates from resident our residential program um who's going to take in a teenage boy that has a criminal record? So then they'll just stay either, you know, incarcerated or they'll stay in some sort of program until the age of 18. And are there ever any ones that are like, "Hey, I don't want to zip through this pro."
Like they kind of take their time cuz they probably find stability time. We we have kids ask us regularly, Nate, that hey, if I try to run today, does that mean I have to I get to stay longer? Like they're literally getting out the next day and they're going to try to find a way to stay longer. And it's heartbreaking. Yeah. And so I also get asked a lot of, you know, and again it comes in many different forms, but like what what breaks your heart or what's next for Josiah Whites or and and I answer that this through a story and I've told this story a thousand times.
Um Ethan Wells. Ethan Wells is a student who if I had a hundred Ethanss on campus, we would go out of business. Like we he was that good. And I want to live in a world that Josiah Whites isn't needed. That's just not reality. So Ethan got he graduated high school while he was with us.
He started college while he was with us. He was baptized. You know, he did all the right things. Got every certificate available. Ethan came to me. He was getting out on December 27th.
And December 27th, he came to me and said, "Mr. Matthew, I'm not ready to go home. I I know the darkness and the temptations and what's waiting for me when I get there. So, I called DCS. I called county probation. I called the governor's office.
I tried to pull any string I possibly could. And Nate, how old was he? He just turned 18. Okay. Um and everybody said there's nothing else you can do for this young man. Ethan left on December 27th.
And on January 2nd, they Ethan was dead for the same reasons he told me he was going to be. And so when people ask me what's next for Josiah White's um transitional housing into adulthood and so keeping kids until they're 21, but after 18 it's a transitional step down to independence. So that's getting your driver's license. That's getting Wait, hold on, man. I'm still I'm still on. I'm still on.
It's Ethan. Ethan. Ethan Wells. Yeah. I mean, h how far into the job were you through that? It was my first year, year one.
And this young man comes to you and like basically lays out what's going to happen if he goes cuz he was 17 at the time. That is heartbreaking, Nate. And when I I held his mom next to his open casket and I swore to her, I will do everything in my power to make sure no other mother feels the pain that you feel right now. Like he just knew the temptations that were waiting for him. um when he got out of the the structured environment, the structured environment. How long he had he spent with you guys?
It was a year. You do all this reform, you like put yourself on the right track, but if you still go back into the system where it it's not conducive for your success. Like, gosh, dude. We do great work with these kids while we're here, but what I struggle with and what keeps me up at night is that we're sending them back many times to the same environment that put them there in the first place. I mean, even the strongest willed people, even the most disciplined, like you get put in a really tough situation, like that's hard. That's and it's like you're trying to give them tools and skills and all the right things to go out there, but like the world is a freaking dark place at times and it's hard.
Um, versus you almost need like a clean slate to be like, "Hey, you know, you were in Evansville, now you're going to South Bend to just like start fresh." And people ask us all the time like, "Well, why wouldn't you move your programming to Indie or Fort Wayne or like your residential where you're, you know, where the need is? There is something healing about rural Indiana." And when these kids from Gary, Fort Wayne, Evansville, Indie, it doesn't matter. When they get there, they're like, "What what is this place?" And when you see the campus today, you're going to know exactly what I'm talking about.
Yeah. And there's a there's an employee at Josiah White's name Wendell Mey. And Wendell is technically a groundskeeper, but when you talk to Wendell and you say, "What do you do here?" She will say something along the lines of, "I provide an environment that is so loving and welcoming that hope and healing can occur." Like where do you people come from? Like what?
They grow them out here in Wash. It's unbelievable. And you know, mutual friend of ours, Alex Downard, you know, when I took this position, we were we were friends when I lived in Fort Wayne. Um, and I said, "I'm never moving to Waw Bash. I'm never moving to Wabash." I told him that repeatedly and he was like, "Okay."
And he kind of just looked at me like, [laughter] "So, two years into the job, um, we moved to Wabash. Moved to Wabash. Of course we did." Um, and it it's like nothing I've ever experienced. The the community, the um, the generosity here, generosity, the um, I mean, it's just it's unbelievable. Like it I have to be careful thinking out loud around certain people because you'll say it out loud and you'll mess around and come back the next day and it'll be done.
Like what? No, I was just thinking, but like that's Wobbash County. Um you know, we have three small kids that we moved from Fort Wayne to to Southwood High School and Southwood Elementary. Go Knights. Um and love it. They love it.
They're thriving, you know. And there's something about small town America right now that if we still lived in southwest Allen County, my kids probably would never see the field, right, in any of the sports. And my daughter alone runs track, cross country, volleyball, basketball because she can. Yeah. And just the there's something there's hope. Oh man, there's hope that you're going to be a heck of an athlete.
And like I mean one there's there's there's benefits to a large school and all that stuff too and but then there is just a piece of community like I'm from Triton so just up the road here. We've played Southwood a few times in uh like sectional football games I believe but you know I graduated with 67 kids in it graduating class and uh [laughter] it's uh it was special. I always say it's the best place to be from like you know getting that small time feel the community. Uh, and I will say I have driven on 24 to 15. Like I've been around Wabash. I have never spent time in downtown like right.
It's I'm having such a good time. Granted, it helps. Like the weather's perfect. The river's flowing. Like it's a Friday afternoon, but it's it's it's impactful. Like there is there's just a lot of I think hope that might be the word for this is there just seems to be so much hope that the future of Wabash County and the future of Wabash the city is going to be better than it is today and it's good today right like I'm not saying that it's not but it seems like a lot of people are rowing in the same direction trying to make the biggest impact possible similar to what you're doing with Josiah Whites and your whole entire team there.
So, I do want to just like to put it in a a streamlined place so people understand like what it all looks like. So, you have residential programs. Those are those three that you were talking about. You have foster care um licensing. So, helping or or like you know issuing, I guess. I don't know what that would be, but like families that want to become foster families, they get licensed through you guys.
I'm sure there's probably like support or you know different things like that, care, all kinds of stuff. Okay. Then you have uh I see on the website community based programming. What does that look like? Uh so fatherhood engagement would be one. Yeah.
What's fatherhood engagement? So it's a program in which we actually take uh education to fathers and we see it both. We give it to both students and community members out in the in in the state of Indiana because we have a lot of young men who come to us that are already fathers. And I was walking through the cafeteria one day and I heard a student say, "No, I'm not going to take care of my kid. What do I look like? Soft?"
And they just stopped me in my tracks. I said, "What did you just say?" I said, "Brother, there is nothing more manly. There is nothing more masculine. There's nothing more that we are designed to do than to take care of our responsibilities." So, spending time with this young man and watching him go through fatherhood engagement, it wasn't the fact that he didn't want to be a father, it's the fact he didn't know how.
cuz he didn't have one. Again, you talk about the root cause, the data. You can't argue with data. Data comes in 92% of people that are of of these students that are there are there's not a father in the mix. How about we start addressing that problem? How about we start getting like training and helping build the next generation of great dads?
Absolutely. And you know, I I still stay in contact with this young man. Um, and I get a lot of 2 AM calls, Nate, and most of the time they're not good, right? It's something happened to a former student or something's happening on campus or so I got a 2 a. m. phone call from this young man and, you know, said a quick prayer and answered the phone and he's like, "Hey."
I said, "What are you doing?" He's like, "You awake?" And I was like, "Well, I am now." He said, "Can you help me fill out this mortgage paperwork?" I said, "Brother, let me get a cup of coffee. I will always answer that call."
Yeah. And that young he's got full custody of his son now. He has got a great job in a much needed field, trades field. He bought his own house now. And he was in he was at Josiah Whites 2 years ago. So he's 20 years old.
And it's he said all I needed was one adult to care for me. One that breaks my heart, but it gives me hope. But it breaks my heart. All he needed was one adult to breathe life into him, dude. [laughter] And you think about like the the impact that one conversation that like just caring, you know, like not every single one of them, not every single relationship will be like you're their number one mentor. Sure.
Like uh I I happen to coach a high school sport. I'm I'm a wrestling coach down in Indianapolis. This is my seventh season doing it. And so I've gotten to where some of my high school athletes have like graduated college and have started to come back around. and you know they are getting jobs or you know and they're keeping me informed about their life and it's like they'll remember conversations that we had that I was just like trying to like channel my inner like pep talk and I I don't even know what's coming up but they still remember it and it's like it's like you don't even realize the capability that you have by helping instill hope into people and like the work that you guys are doing with with a community of Indiana that that needs it. Mhm.
You know that have to have someone that believes in them because they can go out and help change the world. We partner with MSD here in Wabash for our educational needs and programming on campus. So we have our own high school. It's our students and our facilities, but it's their teachers and their curriculum. And so you last weekend, two weeks, whenever high school graduation was, you had all these local graduations. And we have an online high school called the bridge program also in partnership with MSD.
Nate, do you know that Josiah Whites High School had the biggest graduating class of 2026 in the entire county? Josiah Whites. And I I get to do the commencement speech every year. It's my favorite speaking engagement because there's 200 kids that are graduating and there's 200 families that never thought that day was going to come ever. And so my speech this time was titled for those in the back. So these kids have always sat in the back of the class.
They sat in the back of the bus. if they go to church, they snuck in and sat in the back pew. And so the punchline was the students and those in the back are usually best set up to lead from the front because they've been through it. They've they've already faced adversity. You can have a kid who comes up their entire life perfect, but when they get hit with adversity, our kids have already had that. Mhm.
A lot of our kids have to grow up too fast or they have to be, you know, a parent to their their little brother or sister or they're a 15-year-old mother or or or dad. We don't the situations that they come from, but they persevered. Yeah. And you are primed to lead from the front when you know what life's like from the back. Yeah. Right.
Like you have a different perspective. Yeah. Man, I love it. I'm so fired up right now. Oh my gosh, these kids, man. You Yes, they're knuckleheads.
Please, please hear that. They're They're knuckleheads. And we live on campus. We live on campus. And my kids are growing up with these students. And we have people who ask us all the time that don't know exactly how we do and how what we do or how we do it.
And they say, "Aren't you aren't you terrified that something's going to happen? You know, you have all those juvenile delinquents." And I was like, "Do you know what my best security system is?" They'll say, "What?" and I said, "The way we love these kids." The way we love these kids.
And the greatest compliment that's ever been given to me. So, let me back up of of a different story. When I first got here and I wore a suit to work every day, which was a terrible mistake with this crowd, there was a specific demographic that I was I was having trouble building a rapport with and it was young black men because they saw me as another white guy in a suit, right? They didn't know me. And I was working out with one of my buddies in Fort Wayne and he said, "Matthew, go change your shoes." I said, "What are you talking about?"
He's like, "Go buy a pair of Jordans, walk up to that same table, and watch those walls crumble." And I was like, "Dude, there's no way. There's no way it's that simple." I did. And I've worn Jordans every day since. [laughter] No way.
Every day. Do I look like a full uh guy in his 40s wearing Jordans? Yeah. But is it worth it? Yes. Yeah.
Cuz I will do anything to break the ice. To break the ice. to build credibility to to tear those walls down. Well, honestly, what a great friend who's just like, "Have you thought about this crazy idea?" When you are talking to a child like a and you lower like you get down to eye level with them and you see it from their perspective and you start to build credibility. It's like, "Hey, you're not just another guy in a suit cuz you know, they might have a bad association with white guys in suits for their entirety of their life."
And it's like, hey, like I'm not just saying that I'm different. Like, I'm going to be different. Like, I'm going to meet you where you are and talk to you and learn about you and love on you and care for you. I have never felt like I could be more my authentic self than I do in this role, dude. Like, I literally wake up and I put on a life that was tailor fitted to me. Isn't that awesome?
Because it is, you know, my entire career I thought I had to wear a suit to appear successful. And you know it, a good buddy of mine introduced me to one of his I don't know interns and he introduced me as one of the greatest strategic minds in the nonprofit sector they've ever met. I was like oh that's pretty bold. Then the kid goes, "Who do you work for?" And what he meant, Nate, was what organization do I lead? But for some reason I heard it different.
And I thought to myself and I was like, "Well, technically I work for a board of directors." An amazing board of directors, by the way. Board of directors. Yeah. Yeah. I support and resource and empower the staff, but no, that's not it.
And I was like, I work for the the kids and families for the state of Indiana, specifically those who are on a path right now that they don't want to be on. And I came to this realization right here in this conversation. I And bottom lip starts quivering. I start crying. The intern literally looked at my buddy and was like, "This is the best you got." I was like, "This [laughter] is the greatest strategic behind the scene."
I was like, "What the fuck?" But like my entire life, I had to wear a suit and to to make myself feel successful. And I felt like I had to, you know, put on a a show. But it's my scars that build the credibility with these kids. It's my tattoos. It's my story.
It's my the Jordans. It's I genuinely get to be my authentic self every day in my life. And it's amazing. I get college students ask me all the time, "What's your definition of of success?" And my American dream is providing for my family for something I would probably do for free. And that's exactly the life I get to live.
This has been awesome, man. This has been such a a blessing of a conversation. It's been so great learning more about the incredible work that that y'all are doing at Josiah Whites. And I'm so excited to go check it out here in a little bit. We have come to the part of the show where we get to talk all things Indiana. Let's go.
And so this uh question is brought to you by our friends at JC Hart. They're a leader in creating enjoyable living experiences at apartment communities all across Indiana and beyond. Check them out at home isjart. com. My question for you, why do you call Indiana home? I've lived in a lot of states.
I've lived in probably 10 or 12. I don't even know. But I would say accessibility. So I get all the access to the big cities in a small town environment. I can be in Fort Wayne in an hour. I can be in Indian an hour.
I can be in, you know, Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee, Cleveland. I can be in any of the big cities I want, but I get to live in a small town feel in Wabash. Um, and the people, I mean, the people in and specifically in Waw Bash, it's like the way that they welcomed and and supported my family through the move. I was an outsider. They didn't have to welcome me, but when I got here, it was anything you need, we got you. And it wasn't just lip service.
Um, yeah. So it is literally anything I want from a hometown. Wab Bash has small town feel. I we go to church with my kids, teachers. I mean everybody and there's something about Wab Bash and I don't know how to articulate it properly. But they got a guy for everything.
You know what I mean? Like I could be like I don't know. I have a crack in my windshield. Hold on. Five minutes later someone's there to fix my windshield. It's like if they don't know how to do it, they got a guy for it.
Everybody's got a guy for everything. Yeah. Then I'm like, where does this and you're not like getting you don't have to like get on Google and like figure out the it's like no let me call someone and someone's brother's cousins. It's unbelievable. Um it's the same with my you know our kids. If one of my kids are struggling with math, all right, are you guys going to be home at 6 o'clock?
Someone will be there. There they are. Yeah. And even Josiah Whites where, you know, a portion of the staff lives on campus. We have a community within a community. So we we know the difficult and the secondhand trauma and all the things that we go through.
So we live in that environment, but we also belong to Wabash and Wabash County. Yeah. But then we can also be to a big city or we can be to an airport and I could be anywhere I want in America because airports are accessible. Cost of living is low. Um the support from the community like I again born and raised a Buckeye but yeah we're in Indiana to stay. Heck yeah man.
I love that. I always love hearing that. Um, I want to know for those listening out there, what's the best single piece of advice you've ever received? I'm getting my PhD right now. Um, I've been to Harvard. I've been to the Center for Creative Leadership.
I've been to Dolid. I've been to the best leadership development courses and and entities in the entire world. But none of them compared to the Marine Corps. The Marine Corps was the absolute is the world's best leadership development program. And one of my favorite leaders when I was a sergeant, he was a Gunny. Um, my responsibilities were were increasing and he said to me, "Matthew, if you want to be the leader, you better be humble enough to to walk alongside someone, but strong enough to to do it from the front."
Yeah. I was like, dang. So, even our staff now, um, [laughter] it almost turns into like they wait for me to get there and they wait for the hardest jobs, but I'm like, I want to come serve with you, whether that's, you know, farming for the day or working with maintenance and grounds, but I'll get there and I'm like, I just want to go through the day with you because I can't make the best strategic and operational decisions unless I know exactly what's going on on the front line. Yeah. So, I'm under a house changing a water heater. I'm They'll find the worst jobs for me.
Um, one time her name is Trina. She's a [laughter] I was mopping floors with her with like this machine in our cafeteria and a tube came out the back and I was just leaving like a entire river of water behind me, but Trina knew it and didn't tell me. She let me get done and she was like, "Oh yeah, president CEO, look behind you." I'm like, "Oh my gosh." So now it's like a running joke, but now I can walk anywhere in the entire organization because that marine taught me that I have to be humble enough to walk alongside everybody. Amen.
I love that, [sighs and gasps] dude. I feel like I could chitchat all day. This is so great. I'm so pumped for our tour. Uh we've come to the final segment of the show where we ask every guest the same three questions. So, the first question is your opportunity to shed some light on a part of the state that more people need to be talking about.
Could be a park, a place, a thing, could be, you know, a restaurant, anything like that. What is a hidden gem in Indiana? In Wabash County specifically, it is the running trail that goes down the river. Yes. I hit it this morning, dude. It's so good.
From here to Lro. Yep. Dude, so good. Great trail. [laughter] Like you're running through farmland and then you're back by the water and you're Oh, I took the most beautiful picture out there this morning. The trail is sweet.
Very, very cool. Very underrated. Like again, more than you expect. Like Wobbash Indiana is just more than you expect. For sure. No doubt.
That's great. Okay, this next question is where we source the uh ideas for new guests and learn about people that the the state of Indiana needs to know. Who's a Hooser we need to keep on our radar? Someone who's doing big things. David Linger from Star Financial. Oh, in in Fort Wayne.
David is a hooer through and through. He has he's a connector. He's one of those people that no matter what I need or who I need to get a hold of, if I ask David Linger, he will find a way to make that happen. And he is involved in every single nonprofit and Fort Wayne, he is doing great work in his business aspect and um the way he loves his wife and his kids and just he's one of those people that man, I'm so glad I get to spend time with that guy. Heck yeah, I love that man. Okay, this is your final question.
So you have been a Hooser by choice since 2019. Yep. Okay. So 7 years. If you think back over the last seven years, your time in Fort Wayne and your time down here in Wabash, and you just close your eyes and visualize the perfect Indiana day, whatever might be going on. What is your favorite Indiana memory?
It started with a run down the river. So, a good run down the river and then one of those random afternoons that for some reason my calendar had opened up and David Linger calls and he's like, "Hey man, going to the Pacers game tonight. You want to go?" "Yeah, yeah, I do." Never been to a Pacers game. But we get down there and again like you're blown away what is actually available here.
And so, come to find out, they were courtside seats. And I look around and it's all my nonprofit buddies from Fort Wayne. David just invited us. So, we go down to a Pacers game and we're down there and we're hanging out and yeah, man, it was just a camaraderie around that game that was just so random and it was so beautiful just to to hang out and no agendas. No one was trying to sell us anything. No one was trying to It was just good.
Um, and the way that for my family, I would say there's never a lack of things to do. That's why everybody there's nothing to do. It's like that is a personal problem. Wait till you see the campus and where my kids are growing up, man. It's a playground. 800 acres.
You could be riding four-wheelers in the morning. You could be in the pool at noon and then you could be playing basketball and lifting weights and watching a movie at night. I love it. I can't wait to see it, man. Matthew, it has been so much fun getting to hang out, getting to chat all things Josiah Whites. the impact that you are making for Hooser students again across not just Wabash County, not just Northern Indiana, all the different locations, all the different programs you guys are offering like 175 years strong.
This is I mean literally we said it in the intro. I think the direct quote was one of the oldest and most impactful nonprofit organizations in the entire state. and you know we were putting this together and now obviously you want to give a great intro and like after hearing it oh my gosh dude like this is incredible work you should be so proud of the work that you are doing that your team is doing and of the students that come through and the lives that you're changing and the lives they're going to change the ripple effects from that like it is it's priceless the residential industry as a whole has been under intense scrutiny for a long time and rightfully so but when that scrutiny makes it to my inbox so you think about like the Netflix special or Paris Hilton on Capitol Hill, all these things. Um, when that scrutiny makes it to my inbox, my only response is, "Nate, come see what we do cuz I can talk about it till I'm blew in the face."
But when you witness and you see what actually happens on our campus again, like nothing I've ever seen. I can't wait. We're about to head there right now. Thank you so much. If people want to learn more about you, if they want to learn more about Josiah Whites, they want to get plugged in somehow, how can they do that? Josiah Whites.
org. Um, again, the best and of course I'm all biased, but the best youth programming I've ever seen in my entire life. How can we help? What can what can Hoosiers do that hear this and it resonates and strikes a chord with them and they want to make an impact in the youth in Indiana? um their local delegates, all all their local representatives. Just uh the importance of kids because right now, you know, we are we are not properly building up the next generation of citizens, especially those who have slipped through the cracks or people have counted out like it's it is so difficult for a youth to change the trajectory of their life right now and it shouldn't be this hard.
How do how do we change that? Full stop. There. There it is right there. Matthew, uh, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure and we'll talk to you soon.
Thanks, brother. This show is made possible by our friends up at Sweetwater. Whether you're looking to start a podcast or take your content to the next level, click the link in the description to see all my gear recommendations [music] at Sweetwater. If you want a behind-the-scenes look at everything we're doing across the state, make sure you follow me on Instagram and Tik Tok, [music] Nate Spangle. Thank you so much for listening and being a part of what makes the Hooer State great. We'll see you next time here on Get